Hi , please could you tell me roughly how big a bank i would need to get the most out of this offer ??by

Hi MB,To get the maximum out of these offers, you should stake the maximum allowed on bet365 – that’s £50 per race for the horses and £100 per race for the dogs. Note however that you may find getting all of your stake matched on Betfair dog markets tricky. The most I used was £75. However, assuming those figures of £50 and £100 I usually did the following:Fund my bet365 account with £S x N, where S is the maximum stake allowed for that discipline and N is the number races. You could top up after each losing race if you like but I couldn’t be bothered with the hassle.Fund your Betfair account to cover the liability for two consecutive winners so for the dogs and worst case average odds of 5.00, you’d need £800 minimum. Generally speaking a similar figure is required for the horses as although the stake is half that of the dogs, the typical lay odds are higher.Again, similar to the bet365 account, you can top your Betfair account up as and when you find a winner, but keep in mind the losers you find will quickly top it up anyway. In essence, you’re simply transferring money between bet365 and Betfair.I generally had £1K in my Betfair account, but I’d have that there anyway for normal trading purposes. As long as you have enough in your account to cover the liability for the current race your working on, you’re generally OK.steve180479

Hi alistair,I’ve put this off for ages because i could never get my head round it but i’ve now decided to attack it head on!One thing that really confuses me is the free bet system. As i understand it, when you hit a win, you get a free bet, BUT you first have to place this with your own money, then if that loses you get a refund so its almost a refund if lose as opposed toa free bet – but it mentions the SNR return element on the free bet – how is this allowed for in the calculations on the spreadsheet? Effectively the free bet isn’t worth £50 its only worth approx 75% of that – £37.50.I’m also not sure how to approach this in terms of order. Ok for example i have now got my first bet on in the first race of the day 5.5/5.5 for 2.50 profit if lose (5%), but now what do i do, do i find other matches and match them as normal or do i now wait for the outcome of the race? Obviously the outcome of this race affects what you bet/lay on the next race right?

I’m rather unsure what i’m doing here….

Any advice would be greatly received.

AlistairH

Hi Steve,

Yes, it is in effect a SNR bet as your stake is refunded in the event of a loser following a winner. The spreadsheet doesn’t do the calculations in the normal way that a traditional SNR matched bet would do it. Instead, it is structured by default to not increase the running win liability in the event of another winner. You can adjust this by changing the Free Lay % figure if you so wish.

You do not need to wait for your first race to finish before doing further races. If you see a good odds spreads, then take the opportunity while it is there. Just keep in mind that if the previous race wins, you may need to do a small back on Betfair as outlined in the videos.

with doing the races early, you obviously increase the possibility of being caught out by an R4, though I never found that too much of an issue.

steve180479

So using this sheet i can safely ignore the SNR issue – i am following your instructions and using a 5% free lay for £2.50 profit on every winner and trying to get odds as close as possible – could have had a 9/8.4 earlier but i missed it

So get all the bets in then structure them as the races develop, ie, add some extra backs in to reduce liability if nec

steve180479

ok so my first race is over – interesting one as i got on at 5.5/5.5 but the odds had drifted to 9 SP at 3.65 – so i put in in-running lay of £15 @ 6 which got taken in running – left me with £16.80 if lose or £77 odd if it won

question is did i do right? should i have layed more in-running £25 perhaps? I didn’t want to be too greedy incase something went wrong and i left myself with a horrendously high liability, so i just added a little to the lay side and left the rest to come in as a bonus if it won

steve180479

first day doing this – came out woth £48.30 – got on all races although last race a rule 4 came in so i had to do some jiggery pokery on that to reduce my win liabaility – so didnt make the 2.50 on that.

had a couple of lucky races where the horse drifted a lot – i layed some extra so this got me some extra cash – and i had one win out of the 7 races

AlistairH

That’s a nice return for an afternoon’s work Steve. Well done.

Regarding an additional lay when the SP is greater than your bet365 back odds. The level of the lay you put is up to you. personally, I would have laid off some more as the size of the drift would probably indicate that the runner wouldn’t win. The important point is that you reduce the win liability when you do so.

gusyonok

Alistair-just watched the third part of the video and found it so helpful-and so clear and easy to follow the way you present it. I also downloaded the spreadsheet(excellent!) and had a go on the 365 offer on Saturday. I just tried £10 stakes as I’m still a novice at this but did ok and had a decent profit. One question though if you don’t mind. I had two winners, in successive races, both at over 4/1 but got only one £10 back. Can you think of any reason for this because I would think two winners gives two free bets doesn’t it?

Thanks again for a fantastic video!

steve180479

you do gusyonok but the way this system works you don’t get the benefit of two separate wins on the trot. 1,2,3,4,5 winners on the trot doesn’t matter, you make the same profit, and this is only realised upon your next loser. So basically don’t think that the more winners you have the more you make – this system doesn’t work like this, the idea scenario for this system, is constant alternate winners then losers, win, lose, win, lose, win, lose – if you do this in one day you will make some serious cash – but of course this is unlikely – ive been doing this a few weeks now and have averaged only one winner each saturday in the 7-8 races there has been.

just don’t do what i did yesterday and somehow manage to lay but not back one horse (i swear i did tho!) that then goes on to win leaving you £350 down! willies paid me out eventually but this cockup cancelled my profit out completely

thanks for the response steve-very informative how the spreadsheet works but I still think if I have 2 winners I shoudl get 2 bets refunded at bet365 and I only got one

yeh you should do although you don’t need to do anything special with these other than back and lay the amounts the spreadsheet tells you to – don’t suppose you had fullandby and red admiral did you (your two winning bets on the run)?obviously there are things that could have happened to stop you getting free bets – rule 4 on your selection which means its paid out below odds of 5, and also you must put the free bet on the very next race after your winner (you can’t just use it at your leisure)

good to hear you got your billy money steve! On the subject of the bet365 offer, do you think it’s best to stop after you have a winner and a free bet-in other words 1 winner and the next loser-stop for the day?

no i’d carry on as long as you know that if you have a winner on the last race of the day you know when the very next race is so you can use it – its basically a case of use it or lose it with this offer and it has to be on the very next raceas it happens its a bloody good job i got my money off hill as i needed it to pay off my cockup!AlistairHgusyonok wrote:thanks for the response steve-very informative how the spreadsheet works but I still think if I have 2 winners I shoudl get 2 bets refunded at bet365 and I only got oneNo you shouldn’t. Your next bet after a winner, i.e. your ‘free’ bet is, in essence, not being placed with your money. The way bet365 oraganise these offers it just seems like it. A free bet is, in effect, a ‘stake not returned’ bet.This threw me the first time I had two consecutive winners, but if you work through the numbers, you’ll see that you’re not out of pocket.steve180479

but yo will still see two physical free bets credited to your b365 account won’t you alistair? ah no you won’t just though on because you only get a refund on lose so you just get a refund on your next loser essentially meaning only one free bet.

it is a bit awkward to get your head round but the spreadsheet works and it all adds up in the end!

mikestodds

Yes but on your first free bet you should be underlaying at Betfair – about £40-£45 lay meaning you lock in about a £40 profit from the bet at B365 plus the lay profit at Betfair if it loses – If it wins again then you win £40 and can repeat the process again for loads of wonga – the key is to underlay your free bet so if it wins you still win a chunk at B365.

I.e., free bet ona horse with odds of 6.0

£50 free bet at B365 would equal £250 win (stake not included)

£40 lay at Betfair would mean lose £200 loss.

So if it wins at B365 £250 – £200 = £50 profit, plus another free bet to come.

If it loses at B365 £40ish profit at Betfair minus nothing cos your B365 bet will be refunded.

Obviously fiddle with the numbers to get an equal profit at both.

steve180479

this discussion is more about this particular method of running this offer – the fact of the matter is with this method that more winners in a row doesn’t equal more profit – it is a win followed by a loss that yields profit on this system – if you manage win lose win lose win lose then you will make the most money

mikestodds

Not really read which method you are talking abuot but I find laying off £52.50 at Betfair and taking £40+ profit for every winner you get makes me the most, if you can get a hot streak you can make loads.

And this method is even better for the dogs with £80 profit for each winner and with 8 races in a night and only 6 runners I can clear £150+ pretty easily.

AlistairH

This is why the spreadsheet is structured the way it is. It allows you to try numerous variations on a theme.

gusyonok

Thanks for all the feedback guys

don’t suppose you had fullandby and red admiral did you (your two winning bets on the run)?

Yes steve, they were the two winners-why?

steve180479

They were the two I had or at least thought I had bahhhhhh humbug

gusyonok

lol-ok. By the way one last question. Do you think it’s good to place some “mug” bets with 365 (Lucky 31s etc) as well as doing the ch4 bonus to lessen the chances of them stopping the bonus or do you think if you win consistently on the ch4 bonus they will stop you sooner or later anyway?

steve180479

I’m not sure on that one I’d also like to know as Im new on this offer also and can see it being a good long term cash cow if you can keep it going

AlistairH

Absolutely! I can no longer do these offers as I was foolish enough to only do these offers. Now, not only have bet365 stopped me from doing them, they’ve banned me from receiving any bonus offers and promotional freebies of any kind, and they won’t take more than £3.50 in stakes.

If you can do lots of ‘mug’ bets, even if you lay them off on the exchanges, do so. I cannot guarantee that this will prevent bet365 from doing to you as they did to me, but it certainly may help to postpone the inevitable.

gusyonok

Thanks Alistair!

Gentari

We have a similar problem with arbitrage guys, limited accounts are always going to happen if you are profitable.

People have been unable to complete bet baskets due to limits so keeping an account such as BET365 running long term is unlikely.

I suggest mixing up your bets and markets, but in the end you and I are the type of ‘punter’ that 365 and others do not need

gusyonok

All the more reason to have a lucky 63 every day to throw them off the scent Haven’t been able to do these offers for a couple of weeks because of the Hills one which takes up all my Saturday wagering